Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way

I wrote a diary, a while back about the H-1B Visa Flux.  I have been working in the technology field since the early 90's.  I will be the FIRST to applaud Bill Clinton and his insight in pushing this industry, making this an "American Industry", and the jobs created by Clinton, backing this industry.  I made more monies contracting, back in the day, than I am making now.  I now have a full time, permanent job, and not job-hopping around.  But back then, you could risk leaving a job and your phone ringing "off the hook" for a new opportunity.  That was when America did have ownership of "IT/Technology".

There was a big flub by the Obama Campaign concerning the Indian Pub-Jab memo.  Primarily, how the Obama Campaign flubbed over the oppo research on Clinton.  What happened was that the Obama Camp handled this whole situation terribly and it appeared to be a slight towards the Indian Community.  His campaign was wrong in the whole handling of this oppo research and was raked through the news cycles, as warranted.  Although, I, too was focused on how it was handled, I was more intrigued by what was in these memos and why no conversation about it.

The research was about "outsourcing of jobs", and for many who work in the IT arena in this country, the "insourcing of technology jobs".  The Los Angeles Times did a piece about what was in the memos that got "overlooked" back in June.  

The announcement in Buffalo, NY that Clinton, working with Tata Consulting will open a software development company in Buffalo, NY.  And that 200 jobs will be forthcoming.

To many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services is a serious threat -- a company that has helped move U.S. jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States.

So when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) came to this struggling city to announce some good news, her choice of partners was something of a surprise.

Joining Tata Consultancy's chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. Tata told a newspaper that it might hire as many as 200 people.

The 2003 announcement had clear benefits for the senator and the company: Tata received good press, and Clinton burnished her credentials as a champion for New York's depressed upstate region.

But less noticed was how the event signaled that Clinton, who portrays herself as a fighter for American workers, had aligned herself with Indian American business leaders and Indian companies feared by the labor movement.

Now, as Clinton runs for president, that signal is echoing loudly.

Now we go from 200 employees to 10.  What happened?  But more importantly, where are these employees at?  And this opens up another "sore door" for all democrats running for president, why such a high influx of H-1B Visas in this country?  You mean to tell me, again, that we do not have the people to perform these jobs?  That we are not willing to "invest" in our own to capitalize on these jobs?  That these hi-tech jobs must be farmed out or insourced?

But in Buffalo, the fruits of the Tata deal have been hard to find. The company, which called the arrangement Clinton's "brainchild," says "about 10" employees work here. Tata says most of the new employees were hired from around Buffalo. It declines to say whether any of the new jobs are held by foreigners, who make up 90% of Tata's 10,000-employee workforce in the United States.

As for the research deal with the state university that Clinton announced, school administrators say that three attempts to win government grants with Tata for health-oriented research were unsuccessful and that no projects are imminent.

The Tata deal underscores Clinton's bind as she attempts to lead a Democratic Party that is turning away from the free-trade policies of her husband's administration in the 1990s and is becoming more skeptical of trade deals and temporary-worker visas.

Like many businesses and economists, Clinton says that the United States benefits by admitting high-tech workers from abroad. She backs proposals to increase the number of temporary visas for skilled foreigners.


The Tata deal shows the difficulty of proving concrete benefits to U.S. workers from the visa system. Since 2003, the year its Buffalo office opened, Tata and its affiliates have sought permission to bring more than 1,600 foreign high-tech workers to the state, including at least 495 to the upstate region and 45 to Buffalo, according to government data. Tata has brought additional workers into the country under a second visa program whose numbers have not been disclosed.

Some U.S. worker organizations say Clinton cannot claim to support American workers if she is also helping Indian outsourcing companies and proposing more worker visas.

"It's just two-faced," said John Miano, founder of the Programmers Guild, one of several high-tech worker organizations that have sprung up as outsourcing has expanded. "We see her undermining U.S. workers and helping the offshoring business, and then she comes back to the U.S. and says, 'I'm concerned about your pain.' "


Lobbyists, close to them?  Is she or more importantly, are these organizations that powerful, to affect, how one will vote, cater to constituents, or even fund a presidential bid?  Apparently, so.  Then we get this:
Among Indian American activists, Clinton's work with Tata has been seen as a sign of her independence from outsourcing skeptics within her party -- and a break from the Democrats' 2004 presidential nominee, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, who lambasted "Benedict Arnold CEOs" for shipping jobs overseas.

The main lobbying organization for the Indian-American community, USINPAC, cites the Tata deal as one of Clinton's top three achievements as a senator -- and evidence of a turnabout, in its view, from her past criticism of outsourcing. "Even though she was against outsourcing at the beginning of her political career," the USINPAC website says, "she has since changed her position and now maintains that offshoring brings as much economic value to the United States as to the country where services are outsourced, especially India."

Clinton regularly reinforces that view. When CNN anchorman Lou Dobbs, an outsourcing critic, pressed her on the Tata deal in 2004, Clinton responded: "Well, of course I know that they outsource jobs, that they've actually brought jobs to Buffalo. They've created 10 jobs in Buffalo and have told me and the Buffalo community that they intend to be a source of new jobs in the area, because, you know, outsourcing does work both ways."


As Clinton is campaigning, she is careful to, tip toe through the tulips, about outsourcing.  It makes me wonder why she is even trying to court the union vote?  Is it that important to her?  Or is it more important to democratic voters?
Today, on the campaign trail, Clinton often strikes a different tone. Addressing union audiences and Democratic crowds, she does not highlight her support for expanding foreign-worker visas. Instead, Clinton often laments a system that, as she told a government workers union last month, rewards companies for "moving our jobs overseas." "Outsourcing is a problem, and it's one that I've dealt with as a senator from New York," Clinton said during a Democratic candidates debate in June. She said she had tried "to stand against the tide of outsourcing."

Clinton aides say the Tata deal is just one example of her broader efforts to help upstate New York. Whatever the results, said spokesman Philippe Reines, the effort showed Clinton helping to build a high-tech future for a region long focused on manufacturing.

Buffalo's population has fallen by half over 50 years, as automotive and other manufacturing jobs moved overseas. Resentment is so high that voters last year nearly dumped a longtime Republican congressman for an anti-trade Democrat, who had made outsourcing his biggest issue.


Besides the War in Iraq, ECONOMICS, JOBS are a very key and sore spot with Democratic voters.  You say "outsourced" and the person want to know who is doing it and who is "supporting" it.  Then this:
"There was a sense of excitement on the part of the community," said Anthony M. Masiello, Buffalo's mayor at the time, "to have a company like Tata that would not traditionally look at coming to western New York."

But soon the company faded from public view, said Andrew J. Rudnick, president and CEO of the Buffalo-Niagara Partnership, an economic development group in which Tata was initially active. "They told us their business strategy had changed," he said. "The reality is that the number of people that Tata is employing here now doesn't seem to be significant."

At the University at Buffalo, Bruce A. Holm, director of a research center pursuing projects with Tata, conceded that the partnership had not played out as hoped. But he said that progress was still possible.

Tata officials say the company has hired 50 people from the Buffalo area in the last four years but most have left or have been transferred to other locations. They say the Buffalo operations remain important to the company and a part of the civic life of the city.

But critics say that Tata has done more to undercut workers in upstate New York than it has helped -- and that Clinton is wrong to argue that exposing U.S. workers to competition from foreign workers is helping both groups.

Since Tata arrived in Buffalo, "the reality is that it probably created many more jobs for workers overseas and displaced lots of American workers," said Ronil Hira, a public policy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology and a prominent critic of outsourcing.

A report released by two senators said that Tata was one of the biggest users of foreign-worker visas in the United States, employing more than 7,900 visa recipients last year. The large number of visas suggests that companies are circumventing laws designed to protect American workers, Sens. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) said in their report.


Campaign on that one.  Jobs outsourced at American Workers expense.  Sorry, but that is what is going to happen here.  And the unions?
Labor union leaders, who haven't decided whom to endorse for president, say they have watched the Tata deal and Clinton's statements on outsourcing.

"People do want to see from her some recognition that the outsourcing of these service jobs isn't a good thing for the U.S. economy," said Thea M. Lee, policy director of the AFL-CIO. "It's a little bit of an open question where Sen. Clinton's going to end up on outsourcing."

L.A. Times

So, what does it mean?  Depends on what the voter want it to mean.  Depends on what Clinton, really means.  Is she for this continuation or against it?  We do live in a global market, or we have been put there, and many have lost jobs or seen wages sliced because of it.  But, what does she stand for now?  Is it business as usual or what?  Will she just say things for the vote?

And what about where everyone else stand on this?  Obama?  Edwards?  Richardson?  What about them?  Are they for this?   Yes, all of them.  Because in the end, no matter how many will try to spin this, it comes down to "Americans Loosing Jobs By Outsourcing", on the cheap.  EOM.



Display:


Kristoff column provides key points (none / 0)

Thanks for bringing this L.A. Times article to our attention.  Coincidentally, Nicholas Kristoff had a column in the New York Times today that raised some important issues related to this:
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/opi nion/30kristof.html?hp

Basically, Kristoff quotes a recent book by an economist to argue that voters make four critical mistakes that are contrary to their interests:

  1. too suspicious of market outcomes
  2. anti-foreign bias
  3. bias against productivity gains from downsizing
  4. tendency to exaggerate economic problems

All of these economic biases by voters lead them to support policies that end up being harmful.

I think the issue you raised is a great example.  Bill Clinton supported globalization and an upon economy and, during his tenure, the economy grew by 8 million jobs.  The jobs lost were overwhelmed by millions more jobs gained.

In contrast, countries around the world which try to overly control their economies through too much protectionism usually end up losing lots of jobs due to inefficiencies, etc., and suffer from high unemployment rates.

Do we need policies that help individual workers who lose jobs due to globalization?  Absolutely.  However, should we distort our economy by adopting overly-protectionist policies?  That is a path toward economic disaster.


by markjay on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:01:12 PM EST

How surprising that the flaws of the ... (none / 0)

... typical voter in the book by Bryan Caplan are the exact complement of the flaws of the typical economist, trained in traditional marginalist microeconomics and sometimes in traditional marginalist microeconomics dressed up to pretend to be macroeconomics:

  1. Too naively trusting of market outcomes
  2. Inability to grasp the rationality of economic sovereignty
  3. Bias to find productivity gains from downsizing, whether or not they are there
  4. tendency to understate economic problems

... and from excerpts of reviews, how clever of Caplan to discover that the problem boils down to this inexplicable institution of allowing a "vote" to influence economic policy.  I presume that he is too modest to make the natural extension to having all important economic policy decisions made by a tribunal of marginalist microeconomists, rather than by the critically flawed electorate.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 03:58:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

This is going to add fuel to the fire of Hillary being a great triangulator, and is the kind of story that only hurts what traction she has gained among progressives.

We do live in a global market.  There's no denying that.  But that doesn't mean the United States has to get in the back of the line.  On many jobs, it seems we are content with doing so.

Outsourcing was bad when it took manufacturing jobs.  Now it's taking service jobs, technology jobs, and the list is only growing.  Accounting jobs are now able to be outsourced.  Now you have the situation where those losing manufacturing jobs and went back for new job training can get outsourced again.  That is downright criminal on the part of our government to sit back and watch it all happen.

I'm all for as much money as possible for retraining purposes, to get workers back out there.  But American economic policy has been so focused on growing foreign markets, it's losing continued opportunities to grow its own.  And that's not protectionism.


I'm proud to be a Hillary Clinton supporter!
by takingbackamerica on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:26:21 PM EST

AMEN TO THAT ONE... (none / 0)


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

Your argument assumes that there is a finite amount of jobs--and that a job that gets outsourced is thus subtracted from this finite amount.

Over the 19th and 20th centuries, the U.S. lost tens of millions of agricultural jobs--and become much richer in the process.

Over the last 70 years, the U.S. has lost tens of millions of manufacturing jobs--and become much wealthier in the process.

More recently, the U.S. is starting to lose certain service jobs.  If we continue to maintain an open economy, we will continue to grow wealthier in the process.

Or maybe you would prefer that we jealously guard average single job we have -- in which case I guess we should go back to being an agricultural economy.

Let's focus our effort instead on things like universal health insurance, improved education, improved child care, job retraining, increased unemployment insurance (or special funds for dislocated workers) etc., which will allow U.S. workers to compete in a global economy and better survive dislocations in employment.


by markjay on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

but for the average Joe/Joesette, who are loosing have lost these jobs.  Ones that helped with college tuition, that kept them in the middle class, that is a hard pill to swallow.

And while at it.  Why are we getting an influx of "FOOD" from China?  Are we that starved hungry to have to import, what we can get HERE, if we invested?  I am not an expert, but when I see "catfish" from China at my local grocer, that is when I have to ask, WTF?  For real.


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

By all means.  Let's not import any food from other countries -- I think a reversion to the 18th century would be excellent on this and great for U.S. workers.


by markjay on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, this assumption is not required. (none / 0)

Your argument assumes that there is a finite amount of jobs--and that a job that gets outsourced is thus subtracted from this finite amount.

The original argument may in fact make that assumption ... but that assumption is certainly not required. All we require is the assumption that the income to the individual(s) employed in outsourcing is less than the income to the individuals previously employed, and that the demand for US produced products per dollar income by those living overseas is less than the demand for US produced products per dollar income for those living in the US.

Under those two assumptions, the outsourcing is a net shift from wage income to profit income and a reduction in total US income, leading to greater economic inequality, slacker labor markets than would otherwise be the case, and therefore lower wage gains than would otherwise be the case.

All of which fits the stylized facts of Bush's recovery much better than the Pollyana story from traditional marginalist economics.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:04:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

TakingbackAmerica

uhh so are you claiming that the US is on the side getting shafted by globalization? Because I know a lot of starving people around the world that would disagree with you.


by world dictator on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:16:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

Mark, jobs are not ultimately finite.  But they are not ultimately infinite either.

However, with those agricultural jobs being replaced, you had an Industrial Revolution occurring.  Products not needed before were being made right here.

As we lost manufacturing jobs, we got college educations, and we made something of ourselves.

The problem is what happens when the college education jobs go away?  What next frontier is there?

At least what I'm seeing, only 3 real sectors of the economy are growing.  The healthcare sector as we age and need more care, retail, and government.  Can these 3 sectors support 300 million people and growing?  Not so much, and the retail jobs are equivalent to the manufacturing jobs of old, with no labor protections.

I see renewable energy as the great thing that can bring jobs here, as well as get us off foreign oil for our national security, and protect and clean our environment.  But will leaders move on it?  Stem cell research too, but we all know what the GOP is doing to stand in the way of that.


I'm proud to be a Hillary Clinton supporter!
by takingbackamerica on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:37:20 PM EST

If Wal-Mart has its way, we outsource as ... (none / 0)

... much distribution and warehousing jobs as possible to the Pacific Coast of Mexico, with non-unionized Mexican truckers driving trucks from the distribution centers on the NAFTA super-highway to the individual stores, passing electronically through customs in "inland ports" in Dallas, Kansas City, etc.

So there is another sector of the economy with substantial outsourcing in order to increase the share of profits at the expense of the share of wage income.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

Iceberg, that to me, is a travesty w/our food supply.

Especially since I live in Maryland, and can not buy Maryland seafood at my local supermarket.  Yes, no Maryland crabs here at the chain stores.  No lobster from Maine either.

The shrimp in bags comes from Thailand.  Why not Louisiana?

Is it any wonder we're finding all this poison in our food and contamination?  Our food suppliers are being forced to cut quality control to compete w/the foreign producers.

Oh yea, and the oranges I bought yesterday are from South Africa.  What about Florida?


I'm proud to be a Hillary Clinton supporter!
by takingbackamerica on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:39:00 PM EST

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

That is what I am talking about.  And my husband just caught some catfish, alot of pond, water holes here in Lake County, and it is a travesty.  Makes you wonder, why folk are getting food poisoning at an alarming rate.


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

I didn't read your post , too lazy to read . But I know its another Hillary sucks diary. At least yours usually have substance to it although it is always a hit job.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:45:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A major story by the MSM, a hit job? (none / 0)

Read, girl or boy, read...


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 07:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democratic Way (none / 0)

How much does it cost to buy domestic fish?

How much does it cost to buy fish from another country

...I think you answered your own question. Remember this is a global market. A closer proximity does not mean a cheaper price.


by world dictator on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:17:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and after the "dog food" fiasco, (none / 0)

I would trust fish from China?


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and after the "dog food" fiasco, (none / 0)


How many things do we import from overseas?

How many "dogfood" incidents are there?

How many foreign products do YOU buy ?

Why do you make silly assertions instead of making a legitmate fact based argument?


by world dictator on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You shouldn't, but without serious food ... (none / 0)

... country of origin labeling laws, how are you to know?


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:08:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You shouldn't, but without serious food ... (none / 0)

The need for better labeling is not an argument against free trade. Many of our domestic products created here need better labeling.


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:31:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You shouldn't, but without serious food ... (none / 0)

We are talking about current international economic relationships, so free trade is not a point at issue here.

IOW, what supporters claim as "free trade policies" aren't actually free trade policies ... which means that their opponents are not specifically fighting against free trade.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You shouldn't, but without serious food ... (none / 0)

You haven't made one point yet...

Don't get me wrong. You seem decently informed. But you aren't really saying anything


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 07:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why would you expect a treatise on ... (none / 0)

... free trade in response to:

and after the "dog food" fiasco
I would trust fish from China?

"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:20:02 PM EST

The problem there has nothing to do with "free trade" in economic theory, and everything to do with what is called "Free Trade" in policy debates, but which is in reality policies designed to increase the power and influence of large corporations.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 12:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lori (none / 0)

This story was reported in the MSM today.  I wouldn't call this a hit just yet, but it does suggest Hillary is trying for the best of both worlds.

With a sagging economy, job loss, population loss, and no real hopes, those 10 jobs in Western New York might still be significant.


I'm proud to be a Hillary Clinton supporter!
by takingbackamerica on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 06:52:42 PM EST

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democrat (none / 0)

An honest question. So please don't take this with hostility.

I hear a lot of complaining about globalization and free trade on this site.

BUT, I have yet to hear an economic case made to defend your point. Will you please explain to me ins economic terms explain to me why protectionism is bad.

NOTE: I'm not arguing economic in  the sense some of you would strawman it out to be. Meaning when I saw economic I don't mean pro business - anti worker. I'm talking basic economic theory.

Also what is your alternative to the global economy?


by world dictator on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:23:09 PM EST

Globalization does not refer to ... (none / 0)

... forces of nature, it refers to specific policies pursued by countries to allow wealth to be transferred across national boundaries with as little constraint as possible.

The question is not what alternative there is to a global economy, but rather what form do we want the global economy to take. Where are our nation's economic policies decided ... in Congress, or in corporate boardrooms? Where should they be decided?


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Globalization does not refer to ... (none / 0)

Thats not an answer.


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:26:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When a question is ... (none / 0)

Also what is your alternative to the global economy?
... the point must be made there isn't a "the global economy".

There are the variety of global economies that we can choose to have. We choose one variety at the end of World War II ... we choose a different variety in the mid-1970's. We could stick with the latter, go back toward the former, or develop something new, and it would still be "the global economy".

On the first question you pose, I'm not clear whether you are challenging the policy of letting corporations decide national economic policy or supporting it.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When a question is ... (none / 0)

You're talking around in circles. What is your alternative?


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 07:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When a question is ... (none / 0)

Just as the Washington consensus is not a single policy, but a set of policies, there is not one alternative required, but rather a set of alternatives.

One piece of the puzzle would be A Balanced Trade-System. Another piece of the puzzle would be a determined push for Energy Independence, with special attention to Energy Independent Transport. And there are certainly more.

However, in addition to devising alternatives, it is also important to point out that what is referred to as "Free Trade", which is justified with reference to economic models about the benefits of "Free Trade", does not fit the label.

Even if there is no alternative to aciive government interventions to increase the power and influence of large corporations, we should still point out how misleading and deceptive it is to call it "Free Trade".


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 12:12:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democrat (none / 0)

I know it might cost more.

But isn't it sick that we as the leader of the free world can't even supply our own food?  It seems an insult to all of us to me.


I'm proud to be a Hillary Clinton supporter!
by takingbackamerica on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 08:30:05 PM EST

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democrat (none / 0)

No it's not sick that more people can eat because the food is cheaper.

It's also not sick that countries around the world who are 50 times as poor as the US can make enough money to prevent their entire nation's economy from collapsing.

There are arguments against free trade but national pride is not one of them.


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs (none / 0)

See, this is what I am talking about MyDD. Now icebergslim asked me if I were bebe, which I am not. But icebergslim, are you Chocolate2008? The text below was found on the HuffPo under the Politico article in the Politics section.

 
Chocolate2008 (See profile | I'm a fan of Chocolate2008)
Exactly.

This is a cheap non apology on Bill Clintons part. His own wife could'nt even do it. I think he wants this to go away for a different reason. It has something to do with what an older African American female caller stated on Cspan this morning.

SNIP:

Then a woman from Georgia called into the show. She was an African American, who stated "up front" that she was torn between Clinton and Obama. Then she became very angered. She said that she wanted to know, "how much money was Clinton raising by calling Obama naive". She then stated that for African Americans that is a code word for ignorant, unintelligent, etc. She was mad. Then Cummings indicated that the Clinton Camp "must walk a tight rope, with Obama", not to turn off the African American vote, since she need this group.

I never looked at her statements that way. I am African American. I just looked at it as "politics as usual", but this really angered this voter and you knew that Clinton lost her vote. Even Cummings stated so. Will this be a backlash? I don't know. I know that many African Americans are extremely proud of Obama, even if torn between the two candidates, but this woman was really angered. We all know Obama is not naive, nor ignorant or unintelligent, but the African American community, especially the "older sector" is very sensitive to comments like these. Again, I do not believe Clinton "meant" this, but with the African American community, we can look at this as a slight, and it can result in not voting for Clinton. It can.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/7/30/1032 2/5319


by lonnette33 on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 10:37:04 PM EST

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs (none / 0)

Of course not, and I have been around here for a while.  I don't have an account on HuffPo.  And it is easy to cut paste, anything.  And I am not questioning who you are any longer, but I was not the only one.  You type like a person that used to be here BeBe, and again, what is wrong with your keyboard, like "bebe".  So, that likeness, of course, will be questioned.  There are a lot of frauds running around here, posting and got caught for not being "who" they claim to be.  So, to be suspect, everyone is.


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 11:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs (none / 0)

Whatever.  Only you questioned my identity and asked me if I were bebe.  But I don't give a damn because I see where you are coming from.

And since you are trying to be smart icebergslim regarding my writing skills, I may not be the best writer in the world, but I do have Bachelor of Science in Finance and consider myself to be analytical NOT a writer. You see, I had no problem with your Obama worship and Hillary hit diaries, I could take that in stride, but when you attacked me for no good reason, I see no point in respecting your comments or posts. However, I will never be rude and condescending like you.


by lonnette33 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:34:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton, Outsourcing of Jobs, Not the Democrat (none / 0)

How should we conduct trade if our current trade policy is undesirable?


by world dictator on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 07:58:02 PM EST


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